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i recently watched lars von trier's riget (the kingdom) (and riget II), each part a four-hour tv miniseries. it's about an advanced modern hospital in denmark at which very strange supernatural things happen. in the first series, a woman at the hospital with a special affinity for ghosts gradually unravels the 100-year-old story of a young girl's abuse and death at the hospital, freeing her ghost. in the second, a portal has been opened to the supernatural world, and satan and all manner of spirits cruise around. it's basically a sort of ER meets the x-files, an ongoing soap opera with supernatural themes, lots of humor, and a number of simultaneous plotlines. my overall review: the first series was very good. it focused primarily on the girl's story with various other interesting plotlines. the second series, however, lost focus by trying to move from that story to lots of general supernatural running around, and it didn't hold one's interest enough to overcome some of the more annoying aspects (including what i found to be an excruciating, nearly unwatchable plotline involving a very precocious and deformed child). i would recommend the first series to anyone, but the second was likely enough to put me off lars von trier for life (to be fair, i was already disposed to not want to see his other movies).

what i found interesting though was how much the show's downhill slide reminded me of the experience of watching both twin peaks and the x-files. twin peaks, as well, had a fairly focused story with supernatural elements to begin with, and once that story was (sort of) resolved, it kind of went off the deep end trying to stay weird and edgy and supernatural. when i watched it (and i didnt see it when originally broadcast, but in a series of weekly get-togethers where we went through the first two seasons 2-3 episodes at a time), i had the definite experience of, after the first season, an ever-decreasing interest in the story and an ever-increasing annoyance with the weird stuff thrown in from left field. similarly with the x-files, though it took much longer, because that central storyline was only brought in every few episodes, and the other episodes were generally good self-contained stories. but following the "central mythology" of the x-files became less and less interesting with time. for me, it started to go downhill after the point when mulder and scully "learned" that all the ufo/alien stuff was basically a lie to cover up things the government was doing. it was a great twist and would have been a fitting place to stop. but of course the show went on, and that moment was followed by mulder and scully "learning" that there were multiple alien races and an alien rebel army, etc etc etc. it started to become so arbitrary that it didn't hold my interest as a story. and without that central story to whet your appetite, the show overall became less compelling, especially as they seemed to start running out of good ideas for new scary stuff.

i think this kind of downhill slide is common in most tv series that survive a long time. but it's especially pronounced in any show that begins with some kind of mystery (like twin peaks and the kingdom) or some other kind of central question that must eventually be answered (the conventional wisdom about moonlighting, for example, was that it only worked well as long as you wondered whether bruce willis and cybill shepherd were going to do it). and it's maybe made worse by the supernatural aspect of these shows, perhaps because you can throw in pretty much whatever you want and make up some supernatural explanation for it; the writers are tempted to keep upping the score on weirdness to keep audiences interested, and at some point it just doesn't work any more. i guess the moral of the story is: if your tv series is fueled by some running mystery, better make sure you have something to replace it in the second season; and resist the temptation to go overboard with the weird stuff.

Comments

[info]mileshedgehog wrote:
Dec. 28th, 2001 11:58 am (UTC)
when [info]comraderadmila and I saw the first Riget we became totally obsessed and wanted soooo badly to see the second one (which is hard to get). I think anyone who really really likes the first one and wants more (after that ending how could you not?) should maybe see the second one but fast-forward through the big baby bits (as they're not REALLY important to the plot considering the dishwashers tell us what's up)...

what do you think?
[info]optic wrote:
Dec. 28th, 2001 12:26 pm (UTC)
certainly i think it would have been better without most of the baby stuff in there. but i don't really think it fills in many holes from the first one. the original story is at least somewhat resolved, and the second doesnt explore the history much more really. you never find out *why* aage is running around in contemporary denmark or how it might relate to the story of mary. so people wanting more of that story after the first series are unlikely to be satisfied. and in terms of the other human stories (helmer/rigmor, krogshoj/judith), they're almost entirely dropped or not continued very satisfyingly. moesgaard's adventures are sort of funny but have nothing really to do with anything. mona is interesting but isn't explored either. i know there was meant to be at least a third series, and it might have returned to some of those interesting stories, but after seeing the second you suspect that the third would just have been sillier and left the human stories hanging.
[info]mileshedgehog wrote:
Dec. 28th, 2001 12:38 pm (UTC)
the rigmor/stig one takes a silly turn, that's for sure but I think it develops...

the krogshoj/judith one is kind of severed b/c of krog's, er, condition... (I think if there's a third one they'd be concentrating most on Krog as he's become quite interesting)

it didn't occur to me that the whole thing with the big baby was irritating until I watched it with you lot... but I totally see it, now... it might have been expanded to what it was b/c it was Udo Kier (the biggest international name in the movie) playing the role.

we also need to find out why the devil/Aage Kruger was being summoned to the hospital... wtf, ya know? I mean, besides the fact that he was a doctor there and he's Mary's father - and his legitimate daughter was in the hospital as well... maybe he ended up with Judith BECAUSE she worked at that hospital - just to carry on the tradition of spawning half-demon children - which is why he would have left after he impregnated her...

I think Mona's story would be explored more in the third one as well - considering some of the storylines are moot b/c of the characters' deaths...

the third might be INCREDIBLY silly...

but... you know, the end of the second one did remind me of the last episode of Twin Peaks - where the town pretty much goes all to hell and all these key people get killed...

okay, I hope this is readable :)
[info]evan wrote:
Dec. 28th, 2001 02:01 pm (UTC)
David Lynch stopped directing Twin Peaks after about episode seven (the end of the first season).

The trick is to have a definite story, stick to it, and let it finish when it ends-- Lain, Evangelion, and The Maxx all did this.
[info]optic wrote:
Dec. 28th, 2001 02:07 pm (UTC)
yes, i think that's the key, but unfortunately the economics of tv dictate that one keep milking the show as long as people will tune in and advertisers will advertise.

i've dabbled in anime and want to see more, but there's so much stuff out there i have no idea where to begin. evangelion is on my list i think.
[info]evan wrote:
Dec. 28th, 2001 02:18 pm (UTC)
Evangelion is some of the best.
A lot of anime (in my eyes) is just about guns and space robots, and not very interesting.

Lain is beautiful and thoughtful, though they tend to change their mind about everything for each succesive episode (sorta like how the xfiles kept changing who the bad guy was).
[info]olesia wrote:
Dec. 28th, 2001 10:05 pm (UTC)
just as every book should not be the length of war and peace, not every movie needs to be three hours or have a sequel and not every tv show should run 7 seasons. twin peaks should have been a mini-series, like mulholland drive was intended to be, instead of a primetime show. x-files should have stopped filming for tv after the movie and just made one more feature film. the few shows that have managed to run longer than 4-5 seasons have been shows where the past is essentially irrelevant and the future doesn't exist (Lassie, MASH, The Simpsons, Happy Days). the major exceptions? soap operas and sitcoms--where plot is a luxury and the characters don't follow a linear development. the problem with moonlighting, other than the one-note plot, was the switch to linear plotlines (maddie's pregnancy, bert & agnes' relationship) and character development from self-contained episodes and time-independent character development.

telelvision would be much improved as a medium for storytelling if the production companies would more routinely sign people to develop different and shorter projects instead of one long one. (although, that pushes into the chris carter problem of "one good idea spread across three different shows and doing none of them well".)

one of the other problems is the refusal of TV producers to kill off key characters, which would aid the failing interest in the plot issue. they should have killed off mulder when duchovny wanted out of the series, which would have let them develop an entirely new story arc; instead, they kept dragging his presence/non-presence out. this is one of the things that joss whedon, buffy and angel producer, has excelled at--killing off his babies and not resurrecting them as some other character. unfortunately, he's struggled as of late to keep the story arc going.

good thoughts on the lars von trier stuff. i actively disliked his work the first time i saw it and i'm glad i didn't sit through part II of the kingdom.
ex_snej373 wrote:
Dec. 30th, 2001 10:27 am (UTC)
Zentropa
I haven't seen The Kingdom yet, though one of my best friends, who shares my love of David Lynch's works, has seen it and keeps raving about it. He saw it in a theater -- is it out on DVD or VHS?

I too haven't felt any desire to see von Trier's more recent films (it feels like it would be an exercise in masochism), but Zentropa was absolutely excellent. The mood was very, very dreamlike and creepy, and it's a setting -- Germany immediately after the end of WWII, when cells of Nazi sympathisers were still performing terrorist acts -- that was unusual and interesting to me.
[info]clobby wrote:
Dec. 30th, 2001 09:58 pm (UTC)
in defense of lynch
although it is true that david lynch didn't direct much more than seven episodes of the first series (although of course stayed on as executive producer for the entire haul) he did come back to write and direct the finale which still stands unchallenged as the most surreal, disturbing and creative two hours that have ever graced the little screen.
[info]optic wrote:
Dec. 31st, 2001 07:41 am (UTC)
Re: in defense of lynch
in our 3-episodes-a-week twin peaks marathon, i think we gave up before we reached the grand finale, so perhaps i should watch that some day.
[info]mileshedgehog wrote:
Dec. 31st, 2001 08:23 am (UTC)
Re: in defense of lynch
ohhhhhh you sooooooooooooo need to see the last episode - that's what really did it for me!!!!!!

I think that if it had been lame (like the last episode of Seinfeld, if you will) I would not be such a fan of Twin Peaks as I am...

James + Donna = big baby storyline... blahhhhhhhh...